web advice

[kialua]

Hey guys I am looking at a job that wants all the graphic stuff in the world that they could think of, which I can handle, but also ""Macromedia/ Adobe Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash etc. and a basic knowledge of html and xml preferred"". :eek:

As Repro has correctly dubbed me a webaphobe I am wondering which of the above would be easiest to learn? I don't even know where to start with this.

Any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[kialua]

hey, so where is everyone? Repro? no one has any advice for the webaphobe? :confused:

[The Repro Kid]

Sorry, I've just been so Flippin' busy at work I don't have time for anything else. I'll try to write something tonight.

[ldrain]

hi!

i've been doing some web stuff for the past few years and i can tell you that none of it is really THAT easy to get into. dreamweaver would probably be your best bet. it works a lot like the other adobe apps, it has a tool bar, panels, etc. and the greatest thing is that it has an O'Reilly reference tool built right into it (it used to anyway). what dreamweaver does, is build the HTML for you. so ideally, HTML would be the best thing to learn, as it encompasses everything web (you need to know a little bit of HTML for Flash components). fireworks and xml i am not too familiar with, however i think that imageready can do most of what fireworks can.

i personally use mostly CSS and Javascript to drive the web pages i design, and i also hand code, meaning i don't need to use a specific program, ie; GoLive/Dreamweaver. i had learned a bit of Flash in school, but decided to stray from it since i hate to wait for flash files to load and the scripting language was completely different than anything else. i have found that the combination of HTML, CSS, and Javascript give me the best results as far as consistency and functionality.

i hope i haven't scared you away from the web, but in all honesty it can be very difficult to keep things working cross-platform and cross-browser (yes, browsers display things VERY differently at times). i might try messing around with Photoshop and Imageready to get used to what HTML looks like and does. to get a quick page, open any document in Imageready(its the button below all of the tools in PS) and start to slice it up with the slice tool (make slices that make sense, ie; cut along a border of 2 colors or something). when you have some slices, file > save optimized as, and make sure to have the export HTML and images option selected. i would recommend making a new folder, there will be a few files. once that is done, you will have a functioning web page. from there, you can open the index.html in any web browser or Dreamweaver. you could then use this page to experiment with DW, making links, centering things, deleting cells, whatever tickles your fancy.

well, there's my advice in novel form. good luck! hope it isn't too overwhelming. :D

[kialua]

:eek:
ldrain,
It is overwhelming but thanks so much. For some reason my Image ready isn't working lately. It says that it is pointing to an alias that isn't working and can't find that link. I did have an PS alias just dissapear from the dock once and had to make a new one to replace it on the dock, I must have done something wrong but the alias opens for me. I have tried fooling around in it. I'll have to delve into it more. My latest web site just went online. I had a guy build it from my photoshop files and he did a pretty good job. It's not sizeable like some are but since it has a white background it doesn't interfere too much with the design if the window gets changed around on it.

What do you think of Dreamweaver?

[ldrain]

hi again!

i think DW is great. lots of great tools in there; i mentioned the O'Reilly refernece guide that is built in (this helps A LOT when learning HTML tags, and other related code[CSS, JavaScript, PHP, etc.]). you highlight the section of code in question, control-click -> O'Reilly Reference, and it will show you what the tag's available attributes are. it has helped me a bunch.

one of the other great tools is the code and design view (however i'm sure a lot of other applications have integrated this by now). great for learning how tables and cells work, especially for us visual learners. those are pretty much the tools i use in DW, i am sure there are a lot more that help you manage the pages, images, links, etc.

and i think the fact that adobe decided to put DW instead of GoLive in many of their design packages, show that DW is a good choice for learning web/HTML. i was taught GoLive in school for a semester, but they realized shortly afterwards that DW was a much better program.

strange about your PS alias... do you make alias's before you drag them to the dock? i tihnk the dock basically makes an alias when you drag an item onto it, no need to make one prior (unless its a folder maybe?)

anyway, good luck with your learning, check out w3schools (http://www.w3schools.com) too if you haven't already. :D

[TORCH511]

I hate the idea of learning Dreamweaver, and a lot of times if someone is asking if you know Dreamweaver they really mean do you know HTML. Dreamweaver at it's core is a HTML editor (those it has been expanded to handle other web-based formatting languages like cfm, php, asp/.net, .jsp) and that is where you should start, with HTML. It's easy to pick up and learn and having a core understanding of HTML/CSS would serve far better. In fact, if you use Dreamweaver while learning HTML, you will learn enough about it during the process and pick up 2 for the price of one and have a better base of web-knowledge then if you just turned on Dreamweaver and started making stuff in design (WYSIWYG) mode. Really, that is about as hard as learning Microsoft Word.

Flash is flash, and really it has little to do with the web other than Flash's main means of display is through a web browser as part of (or in some cases as) a web site. If you understand vector graphics (Illustrator) at all, then you can pick up basic Flash in a weekend. Keyframe animation is simple and easy, it was designed to be that way. More advanced Flash functionality via Actionscript is difficult and is better understood if you have a programming background, but the basic stuff is easy.

Fireworks was just like ImageReady. And if you know Photoshop then 3/4 of the battle is over. Take a raster image editor and add in Dynamic HTML (Javascript) effects. So if you wanted to create a rollover button from a photoshop file, Fireworks can handle that. It will also do Imagemaps, Pop-ups and Pop-up menus.... the list goes on.

The PROBLEM with Javascript is that because of security issues with IE and the convience of flash, Javascript has lost some of it's flavor as a means of adding in Dynamic content, limiting the use of it.

So we go back to my initial thought... LEARN HTML. Really, it is easy to learn though maybe a bit boring. Once you understand and know the basic tags, how they work, and how to define properties, one tag becomes just like the next, and it becomes a matter of knowing which tags are at your disposable and what properties can apply to each. You will serve yourself far better in the long run as most other web-based languages work similar to HTML.

[-rc]

I think that learning HTML should be on the top of everyone's list. It just helps a lot in understanding different applications- most importantly being CSS. To be honest, you can teach yourself HTML in a weekend, so its good low hanging fruit. CSS will take a little bit more.

From there, I would go to Dreamweaver. One of the things that Dreamweaver is good at is designing a -site-. There is a big difference between designing a web page and designing a site. With so many little pieces to keep in mind, really getting in and out of Dreamweaver is very helpful.

Learning Dreamweaver is great, but without graphics, you really are putting the cart before the horse. Most of the time, I usually tell people to go into Fireworks. Fireworks (IMO) is so mucn better and intuitive than Imageready ever was, and a lot of the time, if I am just designing a quick site, its the only program I open to do it. If I have to do some cool filter-y, multi layered, graphic for the site, I make it in Photoshop. Once its done, I make all of the UI in Fireworks. You dont really need all of the bells and whistles of PS if youre doing interface design (which is commonly confused with -web- design).

Flash is Flash. Its awesome if you know it, but rarely does anybody at the beginning to middle tier ever use it as they -should- be using it. I tell people, if you want to learn flash, make sure that you have the commitment in yourself to get yourself though Actionscript and incorporating XMl. If not- dont bother. You'll just fall in the pile of "oh, yeah.. i know Flash. Well.. I dont REALLY know it.. oh, Actionscript? Yeah.. i can *cough* kinda look at code."

Invest the time in Fireworks and DW, and people wont even be looking for Flash. The best sites, are the most intuitive. Very rarely are they the ones that are flashy.

But im a "Content is King" kind of person with a little bit of Jakob Nielsen rubbed in there for good measure.

[kialua]

"Content is King, wrapped in a pretty bow" is my motto. :D

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to download DW to test it out and then find a free weekend to hunker down with Html. Tried the 3schools link for html and liked that. You guys are super!

[The Repro Kid]

Well, I'm going to start dipping into Dreamweaver more myself, now that I have DreamweaverCS3, I just now got my CS3 upgrade. I've used several older versions of DW, but not in long while.

I own CS2 standard, but for $200 more the premium contains not only the extended PS but also Dreamweaver and Flash (and devicecentral ?). I consider Dreamweaver and Flash for $200 to be a bargain.

But wait, there's more. After copying all the documentation to my hard drive I noticed that the Content disk contains documentation for all programs in the Suite except, that's right, Dreamweaver!

What's up with that? Off to the bookstore!

[kialua]

-But wait there's more! I always laugh at that. I actually had a client that liked the 'Randy Gage school of marketing' and uses those lines.