t-shirt printing

[ctneuman]

Many printing presses use vector files for t-shirt printing, has anyone ever dealt with this process? I've tried SpreadShirt.com, which uses vector files, and I think you can use more than one color.

[Scott Weichert]

I've used www.customink.com with eps files and have gotten great results. I have only had 2 colors printed though.

[ctneuman]

awesome, I haven't heard of that. It's good they have bulk pricing, instead of the cafepress.com style thing where it's super expensive for each. Thanks Scott.

[warking@mac.com]

I've been doing t-shirt printing with vector art for 15 years. The gradiants are an issue at times and transparency has always been a problem. In those cases we rasterize the art. Otherwise the printing is only held back by the color stations the press has. 1 and two colors is always better for profit reasons, but muti color in vector is great.

Thanks
Todd Ferris

[fotodog]

I've used Art House (http://www.arthouseprint.com/flash.html) here in Minneapolis for years using eps files without issue.

A quality screen printer, like Art House, will have guidelines for setting up the file and as long as you're not using a ton of spot colours, you should have a good experience.

It's also helpful to have a proof sheet with a list of the CMYK values as you go in for your initial consultation.

good luck!

[drew.winkler2002]

i am actually trying to get a job with a local printing buisness up here (small mom and pop shot) and most things if they are simple they perfer vector formats... especially with a window sticker i made that filled teh entire back window of my truck... i had it all vectored out... it was very quick...

Scott Weichert... are you a fellow member over on the NAPP boards.. .are these boards realated... huh im lost... but i do believe i recognize your name... i think your the one who told me i needed to learn illustrator because im not very good at it... call me crazy but i swear you are... lol or maybe its just 12:00 at night..

[Scott Weichert]

Scott Weichert... are you a fellow member over on the NAPP boards.. .are these boards realated... huh im lost... but i do believe i recognize your name... i think your the one who told me i needed to learn illustrator because im not very good at it... call me crazy but i swear you are... lol or maybe its just 12:00 at night..

I am Drew. You aren't crazy. Illustrator Techniques and NAPP are both created by KW Media group. This new site is managed and created by all the great people you know from NAPP. I happen to be a member at both places. :)

[drew.winkler2002]

i knew i wasnt imagining things... and after i was getting off last night i went to the illustrator techniques hoem page and it says about us or soemthinga nd i was informed that yeah same people... :D LoL

[Creative Paintballer]

hey ctneuman,

I have used a couple place and found that Fine Incentives has been the best for me cost and quality.

here is the web www.fineincentives.com they have been great and they really work with the designer on how to setup the job and get it to what you want.

Suzy D. Pool is my contact she has been great to work with.

Best of luck
CP aka Ryan


here is a mock up i put together to show the higher ups before it went off to the printer.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h31/crazyphotoshopguy/Black_and_White_TeesConverted.jpg

[Orangetiki]

I have been designing and working on the art production for a few years now. The only thing we do with the art being halftone (normally 45-55 dpi), we try to use no less then 20% or no more then 80% of any one color in a halftone. The dot gain on some screens is insane which will result in clumps with too high a number, or no color at all due to being so light the screen won't burn right. It is possible to use a large dot halftone, but then it starts looking like large dots. The fact that it is vector or raster should have nothing to do with the seperations. As long as you keep up your swatches pallette with only spot colors your basically there. Then there's the printing angles which is a whole nother problem. There is "process" printing which is basically offset printing on a shirt, but you have to turn all the angles on the dots just proper. That really only work on white or very light shirts due to the ink being translucent. That's why when you see a lot of surfer shirts with the flowers, waves, etc. it's 9/10 on a white shirt.

[warking@mac.com]

The screen print process on darks is hard to do, but works fantastic. This is a nine color print and it prints on Whites, colors, and black.

My site shows many other tee shirt designs with dark garment colors. They need a white underbase and carefull colors on top.

Thanks
Todd
http://www.warking.com/Hardtail.jpg

[doggydoodle]

THAT is on a t-shirt? Wow. That would be great to see if it reproduces in a good quality.

Question: How much "overlap" of colors do you generally need to trap? I am thinking of printing a couple of designs but was wondering how much to offset my path.

[Seacat]

I recently had this image printed on t-shirts and polo shirts for family members. I used http://www.doublekkreations.com/. They have a great digital shirt printer the white areas of the image were white on the colored shirts.

[warking@mac.com]

The technique for printing on darks is quite hard if your not at the press to see what works and what doesn't. This image is on a light background, but could as easily be put on a dark or black shirt. How? well UNDERBASE.
http://www.warking.com/SCREEN_PRINT.jpg

[Justin Loxley-Smith]

One question I have had in my mind for a while on screen printing is to do with object trimming. I prepared a logo for a hockey team a couple of years ago and initially did it in PS (had approval), then copied all paths to Illustrator and cleaned then up. One thing I was unsure about was when a shape passed under another does it HAVE to be trimmed or not really.
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n182/loxleysmith/screenp_question.jpg
example situation
For that job I did trim all shapes and outlined paths, I also placed each color on a separate layer as I was unsure at the time how they went about separation. Since then I have learned a lot more but still always fully trim out my shapes, I decided I should find out if it is really needed.

For that job they used Corel (sports Jersey shop) and said they could have worked from a simple image just as easily. Although I have to assume that the EPS file I provided was easier for them to separate.

I have done a couple more designs since but they were single color so no issues really. I would like to make sure even though T-Shirt design is by no means my main core line, that I know at least the basics for next time rather than my best guess. :) Previously I really had no where to ask so great to finally get a chance to clear up any outstanding issues from past jobs.

[warking@mac.com]

I have always delt with this by adding a one pt overprint stoke to the top shape.

[Justin Loxley-Smith]

So just to clarify, one should trim the bottom shape and then add a stroke of same color too overprint, this would be to ensure no gap? Would that stroke be outlined or left as a stroke?

[Jodi Frye]

ya, I need explaining to as well...the program defaults to knockout so I don't understand what the issue would be :confused: Also, setting stroke to Overprint 'just' overprints the stroke and not entire object with stroke applied...oy, this is giving me a headache.

[warking@mac.com]

http://www.warking.com/Overprint.jpg

[Paths]

The technique for printing on darks is quite hard if your not at the press to see what works and what doesn't. This image is on a light background, but could as easily be put on a dark or black shirt. How? well UNDERBASE.
http://www.warking.com/SCREEN_PRINT.jpg

Hi Todd,

I know this is an old topic - but I've only just had the time to read.

BEAUTIFUL, btw.

Is that and indexed colour job?...reason I ask is I'm assuming you're not using halftoning since you could get some nasty moire - but I could be wrong.

If index, maybe you can help me with these questions:
- do you print on an automated or manual press
- what raster resolution do you use when indexing
- what mesh count do you use
- do you thin the ink
- colour order shouldn't matter in index - does it with this

Thanks!

[UN4GIVEN]

Paths-

There are so many variables in screen printing that you need to know up front how the art will be printed...how many colors you get to use, auto or manual press, screen mesh, etc...even when doing art prepped correctley, you can have it all go bad if the printer screws it up!

Then of course...the artist gets the blame...

I like doing half-tone seps...you can avoid moire by making sure you have good film out put, tight screens and a good printer! Dot gain is also a problem in both half-tones and index printing...so the printer needs to be able to control his squeege pressure!

YES...some inks get thinned...some do not...print order can be changed, it's not always liket to dark...it all depends on the 'art' and if you have to overprint colors, you can always 'flash' in mid print...

Indexing is great BUT you need to be able to print a minimum of 8-9 colors for a 'good' print, 10-14 for a 'great' one...a lot of smaller companies don't want to use that many screens!

Here's a really nicely done article on http://teedesign.com/Technical_Info.htm "index' seps for doing screen art...also check out the Lean Bro's portfolio...really sweet designs!

[Paths]

Thanks, for the info. I'm in the biz too as an artist (relatively new at it). I've had a decent enough index from only 3 colours (incorporating the t colour as 4th colour) because the image started with only a few colours - I used index to preserve as best I could the realistic look since it was a photo of a car - and they wanted it on red and black shirts so process was too fickle for those dk colours. I previewed and adjusted the indexing in Photoshop until I it was to my liking and when it went to print red was elimiated on the red shirts and black on the black ones. The other colours were reflex blue and a white.

For the one that Todd did - I was interested in the printing method he had used - I'd love to see a photo of the finished garment too - it looks awesome. I assume he used index so the other questions were something of a 'what did you do' kind of inquiry.

I've checked out the Lean brothers too - nice work. Most of our clients designs are not so elborate.

The problem I've found with halftones when using more then one colour - other then moire is that well there are almost always problems. Either the inks blend too much - or even when flashed the top one does not go on nice and clean. Because it's the normal ink that is used, the build up can get thick and mucky too. Too many problems in my experience - unless halfone is for process colour (since the ink is thin and meant to blend) - we outsource those films and they have always been great.

All the other jobs are done by me and pretty much turn out the same way they look in photoshop (I use colour overlays or channel spots to preview the seps I create). My seps are done in the app, before print time. The printer I supply is a manual 6 bed press and likes how I manually trap/choke and register since it's more forgiving. I work with layers and layer comps and it alows me to get as much on a film as possible (each with it's own registration) and the ability to save as a multi page pdf.

What I'm trying to resolve with index is what ppi to do prep the artwork at before indexing (to get a bigger 'dot') - since 300 ppi seems to be hard (sometimes impossible) to burn to screen (even on a high - process - mesh count). So, naturally, I tried lower resolutions, but then I ran into problems when I wanted to bring crisp shapes like text into the mix because they need the 300ppi to be clean and I want them on the same seps as the index art to save screens (upsizing the indexed to 300ppi would stretch the pixels and I don't really want that).

Can you help me with the index questions?

Also, would still love to hear from Todd - if you're watching the thread too.

Thanks,
Tara

[warking@mac.com]

Understanding where the fear/misunderstanding of Dot Gain came from:

Once you properly understand all this you will no longer have to work in fear of dot gain. The proper effects of printing using the Flemenco style of single angle spot (halftone alignment of 22.7 degrees). This has been known to be proper since the late 1800’s, so why do so many printers use rosette patterns that coause moire? Lack of education is the “hard” truth. Improper explaination by others is another reason.

Here it is, even cmyk (a subset of RGB light) first conceived in the late 1800’s was properly printed in the single angle for accuracy. But, by the turn of the last century (1900) when cmyk printing was gaining popularity presses that could not hold the registration would cause a terrible moiré. Printers decided that at a high line screen (133 and up) they could produce an “acceptable” MOIRÉ that would be consistent on press. They invented the “rosette” and target shaped alignment of four screens set at different angles. So you see, even the conversation of printers that claim to have come up with their own “special” and “secret” angles when printing to “eliminate” MOIRÉ are really printing a MOIRÉ anyway, just one they feel is acceptable. Now that you have this straight, forget it and we can all have a good laugh about ourselves.

Printing in the Flemenco style accepts up to 40% press gain without the loss of detail or the corruption of color due to Tonwertzuwachs (dot gain). The reason is that there is a lot more room between each spot (halftone)allowing for the “physical” gain of the ink that eventually increases tonality and color.With a rosette pattern the space between each spot is greatly reduced due to the angle shifting. Since screen print presses are high saturation devices that top out around 33% Flemenco style printing never over gains allowing for very deep clean runs with little to no downtime. Rosette printing has trouble with as little as 15% dot gain.

Presses have for along time been able to hold tight registration and printers of all fields should have converted back to Flemenco but they followed old thinking with out asking why.The proof that Flemenco is as proper to day as it was back then is that with today’s new high tech “digital” presses print using single angle (continuous) configurations and not rosettes. Mystery solved, pass it on.

Print your Spot Process and all other separations even cmyk using single angles and improve your prints. It is even advised that you print your color prints for a color LASER printer using Flemenco. Asimple test with a CMYK file at 55 lines screen, one as Flemenco and the other with standard rosette angles will prove it all.

Groovy

[Paths]

Groovy

INDEED!

Thanks for that - good read, and it makes perfect sense too :)

[izoro]

hi all.... newbie here. its been great reading and seeing the intricate projects. my questions involve printing tees and minimum sizes. Some background...
the project involves a super simple design and continuity throughout.

The project contains.... 24 x 92 inch laminated banners, bookmarks, 24 x 36 inch posters, 11 x 17 inch posters, 4x6 postcards, 2.25 inch buttons and yes... a dozen dozen tshirts.

the print on paper material is done on the xerox 7300 or the hp 130nr( really sweet multi medium printer ... really sweet) the shirts however are being screen printed.... 6 colour i think and an undercoat cuz of the black tees.

my concerns are for minimum sizes... too late for this job ... but in the future. my example doesnt worry about overlapping because i use i nice thick black outline around each colour. if the reg is bad then theres something wrong in the print procedure. anyhow.

im concerned mostly about the text size and minimum for the screen printing. this is a 3 inch round over the left breast of the tshirt. what are your thoughts... i think we'll talk traditional screenprinting vs the new inkjet to shirt printing.

Peace
Zoro