Transparency & Drop Shadows

[jnicklo]

Has anyone had a problem in which they export a "Press Quality" PDF from Indesign CS2 and the PDF has faint white lines around all objects with drop shadows and or transparencies? Text boxes are also effected by this.

I've had this problem since Indesign CS and would love to know what I am doing wrong?

Attaching a screenshot...text box on the right is set to a transparency and the picture boxes on the left have an object style with drop shadow...

Please help :(

[DCurry]

I believe it's usually just an onscreen problem - it should be OK when it goes through a RIP at the print shop.

[Lefkoff]

This is not just an onscreen problem. Our printing company has been sending us back proofs with them all over the page. They have contacted Adobe but still can't solve nor explain the problem.

[GuyB]

Dave,

What happens if you change the compatibility to Acrobat 5 or Acrobat6 in the Export PDF dialog (general / options) ?

[Creativepaintballer]

hey... try reloading CS2. I got the lines on my office printer but when i sent it out to the printers the lines went away. I reloaded CS2 to make it go away on my office printer. hope it works for you.

[jnicklo]

Nope, reinstalling/reloading doesn't fix the problem.

It's been something thats happened since I've been using Indesign CS. Now it still does it in CS2.

Would Scott Kelby happen to know the answer?

I'd REALLY love an article or tutorial write up on how to properly use transparancies and effects like shadows etc properly.

[Eggles]

This article may help with the white lines: http://www.nickhodge.com/mne.php?mcid=1359

and these articles from Adobe are very informative:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/pdfs/transparency_quick_start.pdf (4.3 MB PDF)

and http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/pdfs/dgt.pdf (6.5 MB PDF)

[qball]

Adobe is doing this because of the need to rasterize some areas of the screen where there (most often) overlapping transparency. In order to make the PDF the adobe pdfmaker needs to reconcile what areas it can represent with vector, and what parts need to be rasterized. I found that by using styles (the ones built into illustrator in my case) was enough to cause this behavior since they were using transparency to make soft shadows on an effect.

To reconcile this, I needed to use "Expand Appearance" in Illustrator's object menu to break out the style to its component pieces, delete each of the transparent effects that was causing it to show the lines and recreate the drop shadow with a simple shape. The ONLY way I was able to resolve this was to take these steps. Adobe refers to the process as making "Atomic Regions/Entities" of the document. It is not an on-screen issue!

Take out unnecessary transparency and 99% of your problems in this area will disappear. You can also tinker with the rasterize settings but in my testing I couldn't solve the problem that way in my document.

:)
-Chris Brady
http://www.meetchrisbrady.com

[DCurry]

InDesign doesn't have the ability to flatten transparency except during the printstream, so here's a little trick that allows you to force an entire area to rasterize, thereby eliminating the lines:

Create a blank CMYK Photoshop image - any size, any resolution, just make sure all 4 channels are white. Save as TIFF or PSD. Place in InDesign directly over the items you want to force to be rastered. Make sure anything you don't want to go along for the ride is sitting above this white image. Stretch and scale it as needed to cover the area to be rasterized. Once the position is good, set the image to Multiply - this will force everything underneath to rasterize as 1 unit, avoiding the lines.

[raccoon2]

We are a Graphic Design & Print Company.
There is no fix for this with inDesign CS2, we have found to eliminate this problem CorelDRAW X3 or 12 will print Transparencies & Drop Shadows perfectly.
You can import indesign into CorelDRAW from a PDF.

[innA]

Dave,

What happens if you change the compatibility to Acrobat 5 or Acrobat6 in the Export PDF dialog (general / options) ?

just had this same problem, so i tried exporting it as Acrobat 6, and it worked perfectly! was always aware of this little bug in InDesign.. so it's great to have a fix to it now :D

[Lenny]

Create a blank CMYK Photoshop image - any size, any resolution, just make sure all 4 channels are white. Save as TIFF or PSD. Place in InDesign directly over the items you want to force to be rastered. Make sure anything you don't want to go along for the ride is sitting above this white image. Stretch and scale it as needed to cover the area to be rasterized. Once the position is good, set the image to Multiply - this will force everything underneath to rasterize as 1 unit, avoiding the lines.

Hi all, just joined up hence this is my first post. With the above advice I've found you can do this within InDesign. Just draw a object box over the area you want to be treated as 1 unit, colour white and set transparency to Multiply. Has the same effect as the above but it can reduce the file size and is easier to explain to other users (believe me, we try to find the easiest solution being at a newspaper!) Anyway, just thought I'd add my 3.7 cents worth (inflation!)
Lenny

[innA]

just had this same problem, so i tried exporting it as Acrobat 6, and it worked perfectly! was always aware of this little bug in InDesign.. so it's great to have a fix to it now :D

the printers called up and said they cant handle anything higher than PDF 1.3 lol.. but they assured me that the white lines etc are purely visual and wont be affected in print.

[DCurry]

Just draw a object box over the area you want to be treated as 1 unit, colour white and set transparency to Multiply. Has the same effect as the above but it can reduce the file size and is easier to explain to other users (believe me, we try to find the easiest solution being at a newspaper!)

Actually, that won't necessarily work - the object is to create an entire area that will be rasterized as a unit, and just putting a white box set to Multiply will still keep vector objects as vector. However, since my original post, I found a better (similar) way - make the white box like you said, but give it a feather and then Multiply it. This forces everything under the box to rasterize, and no pesky links to bother with!

[tamilancaster]

After banging my head against a wall FOREVER! -- I finally found a way to correct this problem.

When you go to print a file:

Go under Output and make sure the "simulate overprint" is checked on

This will enable the RIP to rasterize the drop shadows and transparencies properly

In Illustrator CS2:

make sure the drop shadows are created with a transparent background -- NOT WHITE

Hope this helps somebody else as much as it helped me!

[huester]

This problem is a screen problem only, its due to Acrobats screen rendering. I found this on another forum.

"Some artworked files that require transparency flattening on export to high resolution pdf can sometimes have very faint lines running through the effects when viewed in Acrobat. This is caused by acrobat having smoothing enabled, a screen rendering issue that won't effecting final output."

I managed to narrow it down to the "Smooth Line Art" option in Edit, Preferences, Page Display, there you will see a tick box just untick and the lines disappear.

If you want to double check open the PDF in Photoshop to see if you can see them.

Hugh

[innA]

the thin white lines are all fine, as they disappear/change when you zoom in or out in the pdf, but sometimes InDesign puts full whites boxes behind things.. especially if its something like text on top of a box - both with drop shadows. unfortunately these dont go away in printing OR when rasterized in Photoshop. i wonder if there is any kind of fix, when you are forced to use PDF 1.3?

[innA]

i think ive cracked it.. Pantone's and drop shadows dont mix!

changed the background colour of the box to CMYK, instead of a Pantone, and there was no problem in the PDF 1.3 :D

[SixEye]

You know what, I have gotten advice from a pre-press guy who I work with all the time to try not to use the effects i.e. dropshadows and blending modes in InDesign as much as possible since it still needs some fine tuning with both the software and press. He said make sure you do all photo editing and rendering still in Photoshop. So, that's what I did, it's been probably a 2 years now, since CS came out. This might be something good to keep in mind.

And try using the pdf/x-1a settings for pdf if you are sending it to press. Cheers.

[DCurry]

You know what, I have gotten advice from a pre-press guy who I work with all the time to try not to use the effects i.e. dropshadows and blending modes in InDesign as much as possible since it still needs some fine tuning with both the software and press. He said make sure you do all photo editing and rendering still in Photoshop. So, that's what I did, it's been probably a 2 years now, since CS came out.

These features do indeed work - you just need a knowledgeable team from start to finish to use it all properly. The designer needs to know when they won't work and why - i.e. using some of the blending modes with spot colors doesn't always work. This is an education issue, not a "bad software" issue. The printshop needs to have prepress techs who keep up on the latest software and know how to use it in tandem with their RIPs - there are many options on a RIP that you can change to get the desired results - prepress folks need to know the limitations and abilities of their RIPs to get the most out of them. Some just press the buttons and never figure out what to do differently for some jobs, therefore they conclude that the software that created the artwork is not up to snuff (sometimes true, but often not).

I get these files in my shop (medium-sized print shop) all the time - heck, I even design some of them! Using my knowledge of my workflow that I have acquired over the years and the tools in the software apps (like Separations Preview, Transparency Preview, Flattener Preview), I can accurately predict how a file will RIP, identify potential issues and make necessary adjustments to compensate for any limitations of my workflow so the printed piece will look its best.

Education is the key - this stuff changes rapidly, and if you fall behind, it is much harder to get back up to speed when problems arise. Maybe your pre-press friend needs some education. It is possible that his workflow is behind the times (wouldn't be surprising - RIPs are expensive, and many places - mine included - skip upgrades or put them off as long as possible) and he can't make the files work, but he should tell you that rather than blame the software.

[Lefkoff]

I am going to scream!!!
If I read one more person's post that these lines in Indesign are only on screen... THEY ARE NOT... THESE LINES WILL PRINT AND I CAN PROVE IT!!

DCurry You are correct that you must work through it with your printer... there are workarrounds and solutions to these problems. For example our printer has suggusted that when we make drop shadows in ID to use the normal mode instead of multiply. While the 2 are not exactly the same... one prints correctly... the other gives use those freak'n lines.

If a printer's only solution is to blame it on the software it's time for a new printer.

[DCurry]

I am going to scream!!!
If I read one more person's post that these lines in Indesign are only on screen... THEY ARE NOT... THESE LINES WILL PRINT AND I CAN PROVE IT!!

DCurry You are correct that you must work through it with your printer... there are workarrounds and solutions to these problems. For example our printer has suggusted that when we make drop shadows in ID to use the normal mode instead of multiply. While the 2 are not exactly the same... one prints correctly... the other gives use those freak'n lines.

If a printer's only solution is to blame it on the software it's time for a new printer.

I think I'd look for a new printer if I couldn't multiply my drop shadows - in my opinion, they look crappy if not multiplied onto the background.

I would love to have a crack at one of your problem files, Dave. If you would like me to, shoot me an email at "danielcurry at comcast dot net" and I will send you FTP info. I completely believe you that the lines are printing - I'm just curious how my workflow would handle it and if I could recreate your printer's problem.

[nhmuse]

I agree with DCurry --

If your printer is telling you not to use InDesign CS2's transparency, drop shadow, or any of the features designers want to use, it is time to find a new printer.

Sadly, if your current printer cannot afford to upgrade their RIP to accept anything beyond Acrobat 1.3, that is too bad for them.

There are plenty of educated printers out there who will do the flattening for you if you send them an Acrobat 5 or higher press-ready PDF. With an educated printer, there should be no need to use any of the PDF/X1 or X1a "blind" PDF settings (used when you don't know who the printer is).

Those white lines could be due to Stitching (an Adobe term for a line that appears at the point of transition from a vector area to a raster area when the rasterization is a result of transparency flattening). Some older RIPS have more problems with stitching than others.

Educate your printer. Ask them to read the Adobe InDesign CS2 Printing Guide for Prepress Service Privoders, or go to the Adobe site and find a printer who can accept PDFs with live transparency.

http://partners.adobe.com

hope this is helpful.

nhmuse

[moragm]

After nearly bursting a blood vessel :mad: trying to remove the white lines in a PDF created from Illustrator CS2 I found a simple solution by chance. I just embedded the images in the Illustrator file before saving as a PDF and they disappeared.

I don't know if this is the same type of issue as with InDesign. These were white lines which scored across all the images I had created in Photoshop and most definitely were not just a screen issue. They printed out almost as if the image had been sliced and placed together with a tiny margin.

I don’t have InDesign but its maybe worth a shot seeing if this would solve the problem there too.

Cheers,
Morag :)